Features

So give us the run down on the album, A Pipe Dream And A Promise...

This record is the culmination of eight years... you know, that's how long I've been rapping professionally. Before that I used to work in the automotive industry and so I had to make a hard choice between school, 9-5, and hip-hop, I was doing all of it at the same time and I decided to give myself six months and I said, at the end of the six months, if it didn't pan out with music - cause everything was going good - I said the minute things slow down, I'll go back to work and I'll go back to school. Well that six months turned into eight years and it's a blessing that I'm still here. So the album is all the producers I've worked with along the way, it's my journey from work to turning a hobby into a career.

When did you realise your career as a MC had gone from dream to reality?

Well, while I was working hip-hop was still going pretty well. I mean, I didn't just quit and hope for the best, I waited until things picked up, I started getting shows on a regular basis, and started selling and started making music and I had deals on the table and it took a minute for me to get to that point, but once I got to that point then I knew there was a possibility of it getting better - where it wasn't just like that pipe dream, flat out, then I decided to take that leap of faith. and it was hard for me, to have that confidence or whatever, and I still have a long way to go, so I mean... for some people what you might equate with success, you know, having a little indie deal or distribution deal, there's bigger things I want, there are other things I want to say, so I'm not done yet.

I've heard you mention before that you don't see yourself doing music forever and that you see yourself going back to your original career in the automotive industry. Do you have a set timeline or a set of achievements you want to reach before this?

I know rappers, I know producers, I know people who do music, and when I look at them, I can say - you're gonna be a rapper for the rest of your life. With me, I didn't start out that way. My story, my claim to fame isn't the same as a typical rapper, I wasn't a rapper when I was ten, or twelve, it took - it was a growth process for me, and it was like a leap of faith when I was already in the middle of going into my career - I was already in school - so basically, I did things kinda backward. But, I got into hip-hop when I was in college, but I was 16 when I went to college, and I got introduced to O.C. and I just did my homework really really quickly.

It's a point that when I had the automotive job, I was the youngest person there, I was really naive, and I had a lot of learning to do, but I got a great opportunity and I got a lot of experience doing it. I just felt like at that particular point, I was too young for the job, so I felt like maybe I need to come back when I'm older, once I've chased all the dreams out.

Who's was your first real musical influence then?

I've always been into hip-hop, but before college I was into Detroit hip-hop, so I was into the Awesome Dre's and Merciless and Detroit's Most Wanted... If you ask me on Detroit hip-hop I can school you on that all day, but Awesome Dre is one of my mentors and even Prince Whippa Whip, who's on the record, I call him up and they school me on hip-hop all the time. I don't want nobody to get it misconstrued, just because I say I got into hip-hop late doesn't mean I wasn't into hip-hop, I know just as much as anybody about hip-hop as anybody else.

Me pursuing it as a career, that's when I got to school and I got O.C., somebody gave me a tape of O.C. Jewelz and I played it, back to back to back to back to back and that was kind of my blueprint, I feel like that is the perfect hip-hop album, front to back, so... I just feel that way. O.C. really got me into hip-hop. But I don't want anybody to feel I'm short changing anybody by saying I'm chasing the dreams out or whatever... know what I'm saying? Just basically, I know myself.

How much touring have you done with the new album, have you toured much outside of the States?

The album's been received very well, I've been able to move around a lot in the States and a few months ago me and Invincible had a chance to hit London and Paris and Sweden and Copenhagen... we got a chance to get around a few festivals a few months ago so this is my second trip out of the States, so... I think I should be back here around Feb. I think that's being set up. I def want to get back out - the album's been received very well, as soon as I leave here I go back to the States for the A3C festival... so I'll still be pushing the record and be getting ready for the next record in 2010.

I've lined up all the projects for 2010... I don't just say, I wanna do a project and then rush it a month later. I like to line things up, so I've lined up the projects I would like to work on and release in 2010. So I've worked on the deals and they're being worked out. The first project is in April will be EP fully produced by Oddisee, it'll be out through his label so they approached me and we're going to do that. After that, around September, it'll be a follow up to A Pipe Dream and a Promise featuring M-Phazes, Waajeed and everybody.

Speaking of producers you've worked with quite a few notable ones on this album, one of which is Australia's own aforementioned M-Phazes, do you think we, as Aussies, have a different way of approaching production over our US counterparts?

You def do. Honestly, before I started working with producers over in the States, I was working with Beat Butcher in the Uk... I was releasing 12" singles... If you go back, I was kinda testing the waters over here by putting out vinyl, with singles with producers. I put out a single called Soul For Your Stereo. I put that out with S-Type, you can dig that up... I put out Alien Invasion with Ghost... and me and M-Phazes have just connected through mutual friends, through Supastition and everybody, so it's just I definitely notice the difference in production of it all... and the difference in artists too. I definitely know a lot of rappers over here which is kinda surprising to people I know.

There were very few lyrical contributors to this album, what was the reason behind this?

I just feel like, when you think of Detroit hip-hop, there's five or six names and I'm not one of those names. So how do I make myself one of those names? I don't make myself one of those names by putting fifty other rappers on that CD with me, and you loose track of me. I wanna take it back... I mean, I don't really do too much, no frills, no extra - just cut the mic on and it's just one rapper, one mic on stage. So I hope everybody appreciates the fact that I attempted to put everything on my shoulder. I did that to show if the album flops - and thank God it didn't - but if it flops, then it's on me. I can't blame it on ten other rappers I put on the record. Invincible was a given, that's my sister so she has to be on the project just like I'd be on her projects, but other than that, nobody was supposed to be on the album.

It was supposed to be me. And I think, when I do the colab records with the one producer... that's a collaborative project because we both go in... like with the Oddisee   project, I'm gonna get him and Kev [Brown]... so it'll be a Detroit meets DC kinda record... but with my next solo record, I might mess around and do that, just me again, so... just to show people, until I'm listed in those top ten rappers of Detroit, like the Black Milk's and the Dilla's and everybody...

Do you think it's the sign of a Lazy MC when they have a lot of feature artists?

It's definitely not being lazy. There are two different ways of going about it. You either go in with a plan, you say okay: I have to put this rapper on my project. It's like me saying ok, I'm doing Pipe Dream - who's hot right now? So I have to get Blu on my record. If I don't know Blu, Blu isn't going to be on my record. Pipe Dream and a Promise is everybody I know, is everybody I'm close to. And if I work with somebody and we have some type of musical connection, I appreciate their music and they appreciate mine. I didn't walk out with a big budget there, it was just good music being made by good producers and good rappers and that's how I wanted it to sound, because I can sort of tell when music is structured or it's kind of formulaic. So, there's two different ways. You can either go about it with a plan with your label: Here's $50,000, go pay a bunch of rappers to jump on it. Or, if you're just friends with a bunch of dope rappers, I mean, you're gonna wanna be on each others projects. It's just however you go about it.

How did your time in the automotive industry impact on the way you work and conduct business as a rapper?

The job I had, I was a diagnostic engineer. I designed car wiring systems and car parts for all the new models... so I had to look at all the blueprints, I had to be very technical. I had to be very meticulous. It showed me that I have to pay attention to detail with music. I'm very detailed and I'm very thorough with the music and if something doesn't sound right, I'm very picky when it comes to picking beats, producers hate me sometimes because they can give me a hundred beats and I'll pick one, and just give them the rest back... [Laughs] but that's just me, cause I want you to appreciate the fact that I didn't just pick some bullshit.

Do you feel if you push a producer you're more likely to get the most, creative wise, out of them?

The kinda artist I wanna be, I don't wanna be the artist that you forget about in sixth months. What I want you to understand is with A Pipe Dream and a Promise, it's just, it's all growth. So I put the Spirit record out, then I put Pipe Dream out, and who knows? I have an album I'm working on with Dabrye and Mark De Clive-Lowe and that might come out... so it's things, it's different sounds and avenues I wanna go down - I listen to different kinds of music, so why shouldn't I make different kinds of music?

I want people to grow with me. I wanna be the kinda rapper that Slick Rick is. I don't wanna be the kinda rapper that - I'm not naming no names. I'm not gonna do that. But I wanna be the kinda rapper that Slick Rick is, that O.C. is, and the fact that O.C. can still get on stage at like 40+ years old and rip it like he was 20 and he still has a legion of fans. Your fans follow you as your music grows and as you make timeless music.

So hopefully I can get to the point one day when my music is considered timeless... I'm just gonna put it out there. The same production list, with a few change-ups, a few additions, a few special additions, will be on A Pipe Dream and a Promise part 2 in order to show my growth as an MC and a producers growth, to show you that Knox doesn't make the same beat or Waajeed doesn't make the same beat. Or even Dilla doesn't have the same sound. So the whole production, the line up on A Pipe Dream and a Promise will be included on the next record.

There was word via your press release that you were going to have a colouring book, has that come out?

I think they did a special run... they have crazy ideas at my label. You look online now I guess they're about to release the Finale doll. It's a little plush, moveable doll...

What did they have you doing in the colouring book?

They turned us all into super-heroes, so in one I'm turned into the Terminator, so half my body's - they had the artist draw it so - it's all black and white so you can come and colour it...

Do you know who the artist was?

I don't remember the artist's name but he did a colouring book and he did a calendar and it's all characters of me, and J-Davey and Canabis and everybody at the label...

Haha, nice. Back to production and experimenting with different sounds, do you think hip-hop audiences are insular listeners in that they aren't really open to new sounds or do you think that is changing? Is it an MC's, or a musician's rather, role to test the waters with new musical ideas?

I'm not gonna give you what you want to hear. Basically, I'm gonna do me, and hopefully you like what you hear. But I'm gonna keep changing to a point that you can't say, okay, A Pipe Dream and a Promise sounds like Develop. And you can't say that the follow up to Pipe Dream or the Oddisee record sounds like that, I definitely want growth in myself and hopefully you want growth too, so your ears wanna grow and the music is growing and then we'll be ok. But I'm not going to be one of those artists who sounds monotonous or sounds the same on the next three or four records and then fade out, you know, see sales slowly decline because people figure out you're a one trick horse.

And do you think hip-hop audiences are now more accepting of artists playing with their sound and experimenting?

I definitely think people are more open. You've gotta look at, you have people like J-Davey coming out, you have J-Davey working with Blu, and you have Little Dragon working with Drake. So it's, to me, is different artists... all of the genres are crossing. Same with Shafiq - he just dropped that new album [Shafiq En' A-Free-Ka], I just got that in the mail and that's dope, I'm a fan of his, it's just different sounds man. It's dope to find out when another artist from a different genre appreciates your music just as much as you appreciate theirs. So as long as the genres keep crossing, then I think people are gonna grow.

Over the years a very strong cross collaborative culture has formed between Detroit and California do you think J-Dilla should take a big part of the credit for this?

Dilla moving out there was a big step in the right direction, as far as the West Coast getting noticed and if you look at the facts, all of our deals are on the West Coast. My deal's in Oakland, Black [Milk], he works out on the West Coast a lot. Guilty [Simpson] spends a lot of his time on the West Coast, Phat Kat's out there... the West Coast takes care of Detroit and we take care of them, but like, Dilla was out there laying roots out there... when he was working with Pharcyde. When he was working with Madlib, it's just kinda crazy the way things switched up because the rumour was that before Jaylib was done, even an idea, Dilla was supposed to do that with Knots, down South. I don't know, maybe the South would be showing more love if Dilla moved to Virginia. Instead of LA. But something happened and he ended up on the West Coast. And now the West Coast is all about Dilla...

Do you spend much time out there yourself?

I get out there and I'm gonna go out West during the winter, cause I gotta get out of Detroit this Winter, and I gotta record this record so I'm gonna go out there and stay holed up in the studio.

Was the A Pipe Dream and a Promise recorded in LA or Detroit?

In Detroit. It was kinda crazy. I recorded that album myself, the reason it sounds that way is cause all I did was, I taught myself how to use Pro Tools and my friend had a really dope basement studio with everything I needed, I rented out the lab for a year, paid him and I stayed in the house, I was just, I had to finish this record, I was up around the clock and I had no idea how to use Pro Tools or record myself, I just sat the mic right next to me and I would record myself. A Pipe Dream and a Promise is me. And then I took it to the bigger studio to get mixed, but I wanted that sound and I wanted that vibe that that was a personal record and everything I was going to do I recorded myself, there was no engineering at all.

Do you think you'll record like that again?

Um, no. I think that album served its purpose and I'm ready to grow as a rapper. And, A Pipe Dream and a Promise, there are certain records that can't be redone and I'm not saying it's a classic or nothing, I'm just saying the mood that I was in can't be duplicated.

What advice would give to anyone starting out in, or interested in a career in music?

I wouldn't try to knock them but I would tell them not to do it. I mean, it's been a hard, hard road. I mean, and being an artist is hard and getting to this point is definitely a blessing, but I think the struggle makes you a better artist. I mean if I just stepped out and everything was on a silver platter for me I would sound totally different and I would have a different mind set, and I'd be more of an arse-hole. If everything was just given to me, just written up in a contract when I was 18... but, struggle builds character.

I went through a lot, a lot of messed up relationships, in and out of school, but, I mean, if you choose to do this - I hate giving advice because I'm not, I'm not the CEO yet, so I shouldn't be giving advice to them players when I'm still on the workroom floor. I tell everyone, if you have a question and I think I know, I'll answer it. But if I don't, I'll be the first to tell you I don't. That's what it is. But I'll be nice enough to point you in the direction of the person who's right for you. But me, I'm still in the mailroom trying to get to the penthouse.

It's interesting you mention that the struggle has had an influence on your sound because you can see as an example, some artists today who have gone from being relatively unknowns and progressing up the ranks and watching their behaviour change to that of diva's. Do you ever worry about that sort of success and how you would manage it?

I'm really quiet, I keep to myself a lot and the reason I do that is to not let the outside influence me in a certain way. That's why I record by myself, to get in my own zone. I don't need ten yes-men behind me, hyping me up, you know what I'm saying? Honestly, if 50 people were in a crowd and 49 were telling me my album was amazing- which is dope, and I love it when people tell me that - but if all you have to say is three words like "it is dope", I'm gonna look for the one person that has critical, constructive criticism about my record and how to make me better so that I can grab that fan, I don't want to lose them. I mean obviously I already got the other ones but, how do I keep the one that is sceptical right now. That's what I always do. I never have a limit. I still have a long way to go, there are different patterns I want to do lyrically, there's different beats I want to try out and just different vibes I want to make and I don't think that will ever go away.

I think as long as that, as long as the drive to get better, and the drive to grow as an artist is still in me, then I don't think I'll turn into that artist. Demanding things. I'm happy where I'm at, I'm happy getting paid to do something that a lot of people are still doing as a hobby - I've been there, scribbling on CDRs, I remember being in a show with One Be Lo and he had all his merch on the table and I scribbled my name on a bunch of blank CDs, but I sold them all and he was just looking at me, like how did you do that? And I was like, honestly, this ain't shit. I want a barcode. I want to have wrapped up merchandise. I wanted to end up over here. It's definitely steps for me. So as long as I have steps to go up, I'll still be the same person...

And it seems your steps will always be within music. As there a lot of people it feels like currently that enter music, or that enter rapping more specifically, as a segue-way into having a clothing label or having a cologne or whatever, that doesn't seem like it interests you...

I've been offered to have a deal, somebody wanted to manage me and they wanted to start, they wanted me to start a label and bring other rappers from Detroit over and I mean... I can't even manage myself, how am I going to manage other people? I'm not to that point. Maybe I might do it one day, but it's not anything I would like say, ok, when I'm done rapping I'm not gonna go back to school, I'm gonna start a label cause I have to be involved in music.

I'm happy being involved in music, I'm a believer in playing my part. I just wanna rap. I just want my lyrics to grow. I'm a believer in the fifty fifty rule. The producer does fifty per cent of the work and the MC does the other fifty per cent and as long as I do my job and get better at it... hopefully people will remember that, that I'm not trying to be the next Russell Simmons or whatever... hopefully my records are remembered by my kids' kids.

Do you think that there are some people out there though that think that it is simple as that. You know like think, first I get my rap record off the ground and then I just start my clothing label... Do you think some people don't get the actual hard work, and luck, that is behind trying to make something like that happen?

I don't think they really get it. I think they think everything is handed to them. But I think that with the recession, and them seeing the reality of the rappers, their favourite rappers coming out, you know what I'm saying? It's like a wake-up call. Even the signed rappers, not copping the Lambo... when you see them having to ride first class instead of having the lear jet and all of that... It's just a lot of reality is coming out of rap, finally.

Finally rappers are being real, finally they're being exposed, good or bad, if they like it or they don't like it, it's out there now and if everything isn't what it seems, I hope these kids see that. But, it's possible for a small kid to become the next Russell Simmons.

Hip-hop will never go away, and there are different avenues, I'm just saying that that avenue isn't for me. But my little brother, he may wanna be the next Russell Simmons or the next Jay-Z. But there's ways to go about doing it. How hard is your drive, how much effort are you willing to put into your music?

You can't just stay in your basement, and I'm sick of seeing rappers staying in their basement, in their mother's basement for ten years and then popping up at my show not knowing that I've been on the road doing shows... then you pop up and you hate on me because you're not up there with me. You know? Just be real and get out there, do what I did. Pay your dues.

Real talk, thanks for taking the time to speak with us. Any shout outs?

Shout out to the homey M-Phazes for holding me down while I'm over here. To Grindin', to Sam and everybody. Shout out to you guys, I appreciate that. Shout out to Invincible, look out for the next record!

A Pipe Dream and a Promise is out now via Interdependent Media and Grindin' Stay tuned for more big things from Finale with several projects slated for a 2010 release.

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