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Martha Cooper
The First Lady Of Street Photography
"The issue of whether graf is art or vandalism has been a persistent one. My standard response is that graffiti is both. It's an art that thrives on being illegal." Martha Cooper
Martha Cooper is a woman who needs no introduction in the world of graffiti. Every kid anywhere that ever gripped a can during the '80s and '90s was more than likely first introduced into the graffiti world through Martha's photos which documented the style and art of the early NY graffiti scene.
While her collaborator on the 'graffiti bible' Subway Art, Henry Chalfant, focused on presenting the works from a technical standpoint, Martha shot the people, places and the steel galleries themselves as they rumbled through NY's boroughs. Celebrating its 25th year the book has been re-released in a new larger format and as such we caught up with Martha to hear her take on it all, a quarter of a decade later.
While her collaborator on the 'graffiti bible' Subway Art, Henry Chalfant, focused on presenting the works from a technical standpoint, Martha shot the people, places and the steel galleries themselves as they rumbled through NY's boroughs. Celebrating its 25th year the book has been re-released in a new larger format and as such we caught up with Martha to hear her take on it all, a quarter of a decade later.
Having the 25th anniversary of such an important book to both graffiti and street art culture as a whole reproduced in such an exciting new format must be a pretty proud moment for both you and Henry. How has your relationship with this collection of photos changed over the years?
We had an exceedingly difficult time finding a publisher for the original edition. When Thames and Hudson finally agreed to publish our book, we were delighted to get it out in whatever format they thought would sell. Over the years, it turned out that they were correct in producing a relatively inexpensive, soft cover, 96 page book that could be widely distributed. However, as a photographer, I always felt a little disappointed about the presentation of the photos so I'm really happy about the new format.
When revising the 25th anniversary edition of Subway Art how was the process of image selection for you? With the new oversized format did you feel like you were discovering the images for the first time?
We each chose our own photos. We tried to include work from as many writers as possible and not over represent anyone. In my case, I wanted to use photos that I felt were especially good examples of my own photography. When I edited the photos I discovered some variations on images that appeared in the original edition that I liked better and so we used those. An example of this is the scene in Dondi's room or the scene with Dez in the yards with a baseball bat. In some cases, I was happy to be able to use photos full frame that had been severely cropped in the original edition such as the one of Daze and Skeme entering the yard.
During your time photographing the sub-culture what was the general response from your peers? Do you still find yourself talking with people that don't understand what you were trying to do with this book and if so what has been your response to them?
I did meet resistance or incomprehension from a few people originally but many of my friends and colleagues were anthropologists and folklorists so they were very supportive of my efforts. The issue of whether graf is art or vandalism has been a persistent one. My standard response is that graffiti is both. It's an art that thrives on being illegal however the punishments have become too harsh.
At the time of this interview you had a group exhibition taking place in New York with Helenbeck Gallery titled Whole In The Wall how did you become involved? Did you help in getting some of the writers such as Quik, Crash and Daze involved?
The Helenbeck exhibition is one of many I've participated in. This show was conceived around the work of the artists. My contribution was secondary. I did not play any role in organizing the show.
So there is a 40ft Cooper mural which we assume is in your honour. Can you explain what the process was with this and who was involved? Also of your own work what can we expect to see if we were to make it to the New York exhibition?
Both Henry and I will have a very large photo in the show. By chance both will be of Blade's swinging letter piece that's the centerfold of both editions of Subway Art. My photo shows the train barreling through the South Bronx while Henry shot the same piece straight on. These photos highlight our individual styles of shooting graffiti, with and without context. The other photos of mine that are in the show are all from the book so there's no need for you to come to NYC for those. However Blade, Crash, Daze, Quik and Lee are exhibiting canvases so if you came to NYC for the opening you would be able to meet these legendary artists who appear in our book.
How do you feel about graffiti and the broader world of street art in all its forms currently? Does it still excite you? Are there any particular artist that you follow or whose work you've recently seen and enjoyed?
Graffiti and street art heighten my day to day pleasure while walking around the streets of the city. In a mass-produced world, it's always invigorating to spot anything made by hand. These days I am particularly interested in hand drawn stickers and have recently published a small book about them called Going Postal. I'm working on a follow-up one about the even smaller "Hello My Name" is ones. I also am a fan of graffiti on trucks and roller graffiti painted from roof tops. There is plenty to keep me snapping as I walk from place to place. NYC is a daily treasure hunt!
Is there any particular artist from when you were documenting the scene that you wish you could of photographed and why?
I had always wanted to photograph Taki 183 because he was an elusive icon but until recently, never managed to meet him. Last month, graffiti historian Roger Gastman introduced me and I photographed Taki for an upcoming documentary. That was a special thrill!
It must of gotten to a point during your time documenting the actions of these writers that you became known to the vandal squad, how did you deal with this? Did they ever approach you for information or did they respect your role as an anthropologist?
I once photographed Hickey and Ski posing next to a tag Shy 147 had dedicated to them on the door of their precinct. I published this photo in Tag Town. They never came to me for information. I think they respected my role as a journalist, not an anthropologist.
The photographic equipment of today has changed a hundred fold since the late 70's early 80's, have you moved onto using digital or are you more interested in still working in film?
I stopped using film about 7 years ago. This was a difficult transition but I would never go back. Digital photography is much more flexible than shooting with film and I enjoy working with the photos afterwards.
The female presence in Subway Art is noticeably small with only really Lady Pink holding it down and with most relegated to subject matter, in either odes to girlfriends, mothers or half naked female characters. Do you think it's still as hard today for woman to carve out a name for themselves as a writer as it was in those earlier days?
Don't forget that Lizzie in Subway Art also wrote and we included tags by Barbara 62 and Eva 62. There are many more women today who are respected as writers. However there are so many more writers worldwide that I don't know whether the percentage of female artists is any larger. I've been to a few events for women in hip-hop such as Be Girl Be in Minneapolis and We B*Girlz in Berlin. From what I hear, women still have to overcome a lot of resistance from guys to be included in a well-known crew.
You mention in both the forward and the afterwords that the process of making this publication a reality was at times a very frustrating and no doubt daunting one. How did you strive through this and what advice would you give to anyone else out there that is trying to strive for a creative goal through adversity that you wish you had heard?
Persistence usually works for me. Don't give up!
Finally any shoutouts or last words?
I feel that I was extremely fortunate to have connected with a phenomenon that quite miraculously turned into a global art movement. This is something I never expected 25 years ago. A big up to the writers who gave me the motivation and permission to photograph their world and a shout out to all those equally talented writers whose work I missed.
Martha has a couple of websites that are worth checking out, first NY City Snaps where you can find her photography exploring the daily street life of NY. Also look for We B Girlz and Kodak Girl, her website dedicated to some of her favourite unrecognised and anonymous female photographers.
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We had an exceedingly difficult time finding a publisher for the original edition. When Thames and Hudson finally agreed to publish our book, we were delighted to get it out in whatever format they thought would sell. Over the years, it turned out that they were correct in producing a relatively inexpensive, soft cover, 96 page book that could be widely distributed. However, as a photographer, I always felt a little disappointed about the presentation of the photos so I'm really happy about the new format.
When revising the 25th anniversary edition of Subway Art how was the process of image selection for you? With the new oversized format did you feel like you were discovering the images for the first time?
We each chose our own photos. We tried to include work from as many writers as possible and not over represent anyone. In my case, I wanted to use photos that I felt were especially good examples of my own photography. When I edited the photos I discovered some variations on images that appeared in the original edition that I liked better and so we used those. An example of this is the scene in Dondi's room or the scene with Dez in the yards with a baseball bat. In some cases, I was happy to be able to use photos full frame that had been severely cropped in the original edition such as the one of Daze and Skeme entering the yard.
During your time photographing the sub-culture what was the general response from your peers? Do you still find yourself talking with people that don't understand what you were trying to do with this book and if so what has been your response to them?
I did meet resistance or incomprehension from a few people originally but many of my friends and colleagues were anthropologists and folklorists so they were very supportive of my efforts. The issue of whether graf is art or vandalism has been a persistent one. My standard response is that graffiti is both. It's an art that thrives on being illegal however the punishments have become too harsh.
At the time of this interview you had a group exhibition taking place in New York with Helenbeck Gallery titled Whole In The Wall how did you become involved? Did you help in getting some of the writers such as Quik, Crash and Daze involved?
The Helenbeck exhibition is one of many I've participated in. This show was conceived around the work of the artists. My contribution was secondary. I did not play any role in organizing the show.
So there is a 40ft Cooper mural which we assume is in your honour. Can you explain what the process was with this and who was involved? Also of your own work what can we expect to see if we were to make it to the New York exhibition?
Both Henry and I will have a very large photo in the show. By chance both will be of Blade's swinging letter piece that's the centerfold of both editions of Subway Art. My photo shows the train barreling through the South Bronx while Henry shot the same piece straight on. These photos highlight our individual styles of shooting graffiti, with and without context. The other photos of mine that are in the show are all from the book so there's no need for you to come to NYC for those. However Blade, Crash, Daze, Quik and Lee are exhibiting canvases so if you came to NYC for the opening you would be able to meet these legendary artists who appear in our book.
How do you feel about graffiti and the broader world of street art in all its forms currently? Does it still excite you? Are there any particular artist that you follow or whose work you've recently seen and enjoyed?
Graffiti and street art heighten my day to day pleasure while walking around the streets of the city. In a mass-produced world, it's always invigorating to spot anything made by hand. These days I am particularly interested in hand drawn stickers and have recently published a small book about them called Going Postal. I'm working on a follow-up one about the even smaller "Hello My Name" is ones. I also am a fan of graffiti on trucks and roller graffiti painted from roof tops. There is plenty to keep me snapping as I walk from place to place. NYC is a daily treasure hunt!
Is there any particular artist from when you were documenting the scene that you wish you could of photographed and why?
I had always wanted to photograph Taki 183 because he was an elusive icon but until recently, never managed to meet him. Last month, graffiti historian Roger Gastman introduced me and I photographed Taki for an upcoming documentary. That was a special thrill!
It must of gotten to a point during your time documenting the actions of these writers that you became known to the vandal squad, how did you deal with this? Did they ever approach you for information or did they respect your role as an anthropologist?
I once photographed Hickey and Ski posing next to a tag Shy 147 had dedicated to them on the door of their precinct. I published this photo in Tag Town. They never came to me for information. I think they respected my role as a journalist, not an anthropologist.
The photographic equipment of today has changed a hundred fold since the late 70's early 80's, have you moved onto using digital or are you more interested in still working in film?
I stopped using film about 7 years ago. This was a difficult transition but I would never go back. Digital photography is much more flexible than shooting with film and I enjoy working with the photos afterwards.
The female presence in Subway Art is noticeably small with only really Lady Pink holding it down and with most relegated to subject matter, in either odes to girlfriends, mothers or half naked female characters. Do you think it's still as hard today for woman to carve out a name for themselves as a writer as it was in those earlier days?
Don't forget that Lizzie in Subway Art also wrote and we included tags by Barbara 62 and Eva 62. There are many more women today who are respected as writers. However there are so many more writers worldwide that I don't know whether the percentage of female artists is any larger. I've been to a few events for women in hip-hop such as Be Girl Be in Minneapolis and We B*Girlz in Berlin. From what I hear, women still have to overcome a lot of resistance from guys to be included in a well-known crew.
You mention in both the forward and the afterwords that the process of making this publication a reality was at times a very frustrating and no doubt daunting one. How did you strive through this and what advice would you give to anyone else out there that is trying to strive for a creative goal through adversity that you wish you had heard?
Persistence usually works for me. Don't give up!
Finally any shoutouts or last words?
I feel that I was extremely fortunate to have connected with a phenomenon that quite miraculously turned into a global art movement. This is something I never expected 25 years ago. A big up to the writers who gave me the motivation and permission to photograph their world and a shout out to all those equally talented writers whose work I missed.
Martha has a couple of websites that are worth checking out, first NY City Snaps where you can find her photography exploring the daily street life of NY. Also look for We B Girlz and Kodak Girl, her website dedicated to some of her favourite unrecognised and anonymous female photographers.
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