’90s legend/Sonic Youth frontwoman Kim Gordon recently appeared on the Bret Easton Ellis Podcast (creative name, I know). And, as it has become very popular lately for 20th century legends to scoff at successful 21st century pop-culture icons (yeah I see you over there, Grace Jones), Ellis and Gordon got right to it.

After Ellis made claims that Grimes created ‘Go’ to be purchased, he asked Gordon if Sonic Youth ever created art with commercial ambitions. She went on to imply that everyone who created music after Nirvana aspired to be famous and wealthy, “We didn’t really have expectations about being hugely commercial… And I think everyone else did after Nirvana broke. People would say oh don’t you think your record is going to be as big and we’d be like, ‘No are you crazy? What’s your logic?'”

Ellis also threw shade at Lana Del Rey, saying that she wouldn’t be nearly as popular (lol ok) if it wasn’t for Gordon’s mentioning of her in her memoir, Girl in a Band. Gordon then went on to comment on the sexualisation of female pop-stars, taking note of the Spice Girls, “Well I remember I was actually disturbed by the Spice Girls because they took the word ‘girl power’ and it was used in the most ridiculous way. And Coco was two or three or something, so she hadn’t been exposed to the Spice Girls… I mean some of it’s fun but then it’s like, really the music I can’t listen to.” Please don’t say mean things about my childhood idols.

You can listen to the entire Shadefest 2015 here.

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